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And I would like your views on the relative advantage of ... measuring and doing assessments and using them to measure proficiency or another measure of growth Thank You senator for that question. I think if is I'm understanding your question correctly around proficiency I would also correlate it to competency and mastery so you...each student is measured according to the advancement that they're making in each subject area Frankel: Well that's growth. That's not proficiency. So in other words the growth they're making isn't growth. The proficiency is an arbitrary standard. DeVos: If they've reached a level the proficiency is if they've reached a like third-grade level for reading etc Frankel: No I'm talking about the debate between proficiency and growth. What your thoughts are on that. DeVos: Well I was just asking to clarify then Frankel: well this is a subject that is has been debated in the education community for years. And I've I've advocated growth as the Chairman and every member of this committee knows because with proficiency... DeVos: You're looking backwards. Frankel: Teachers ignore the kids at the top who are not gonna fall below proficiency, and they ignore the kid at the bottom who no matter what they do we'll never get the proficiency. So I've been an advocate of growth. But it surprises me that you don't know this issue. And Mr. Chairman I think this is a good reason for us to have more questions because this is a very important subject education our kids education and I think we're selling our kids short by not being able to have a debate on it. And I didn't know of any rule about this you know everyone gets one question and one other Senator gets a question. I don't know where that rule comes from. Alexander: Well I'll tell you where it comes from Senator Frankel. It comes from the committee president and the way we treated President Obama's nominees John King and the way we treated Are Duncan and the way I was treated when I was a secretary. But I'm going to apply the acquiring the same rules to them. To secretary DeVos or to Mrs. DeVos Frankel:Well I think we're selling our kids short by not being able to ask follow-up questions, and I was kind of surprised. Well I'm not that surprised that you did not know this issue. Miss DeVos your family has a long history of supporting anti-lgbt causes including donating millions of dollars to groups that push conversion therapy the practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation or gender identity. For example, you and your family have given over 10 million dollars to Focus On The Family an organization that currently states on its website that quote quot;homosexual strugglers can and do change their sexual behavior and identity.quot; Mrs. DeVos, conversion therapy has been widely discredited and rejected for decades by every mainstream medical and mental health organization as neither medically nor ethically appropriate. It has been shown to lead to depression anxiety drug...
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